stripped of everything

Homosexuality – By Birth – By Decision

with 22 comments

Question for everyone.
There is no right or wrong answer here.
Just be respectful as you answer.

Is homosexuality a choice, or is it something obtained at birth??

Discuss…

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Written by vagabondrunn

October 6, 2008 at 9:25 pm

22 Responses

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  1. I have an opinion that is very likely offensive to some, and I’m sure my logic is likely quite flawed somewhere along the line, so I’m not eternally married to this idea.

    I can see homosexuality both ways. I know (if for no other reason than the fact that I’ve met some who are this way) that for some homosexuality is a choice. All those I’ve had conversations with who see it that way have said they made the choice because of some sort of missing element in their life. Like so many sins, they opened themselves up to it because of some sort of selfishness.

    I can also see homosexuality as a genetic trait. Unfortunately, my opinion on this matter won’t make someone who is pro-homosexuality be my friend. I see genetic homosexuality a product of a broken world. As a result of the curse of sin, just as we have sickness, diseases, birth defects, mental health issues, why could homosexuality also be some biological dysfunction.

    The hard thing with my position is this. If it can be either choice or genetic, how do you tell the difference? And, if it is a genetic thing, then is it still a sin (because the person with the genetic defect truly WAS made that way)?

    Jeff M. Miller

    October 6, 2008 at 10:26 pm

  2. Using the Word of God as the basis for my beliefs, I do not believe that homosexuality can possibly be genetic/biological in any way.

    Homosexuality flies in the face of God’s plan for man. His Word tells us He abhors such behavior. Because God never contradicts Himself, how could He possibly make man intentionally homosexual? He cannot. His Word tells us He cannot even “look” upon sin, ergo…if He were to make man homosexual, He would be sinning against Himself.

    While I do believe same-sex attraction is a very real feeling for those who experience it, I do not believe it is appointed by God. I believe it is simply the result of our fallen condition.

    nobodyspecial

    October 7, 2008 at 6:39 am

  3. Seeing as how we are flawed in many ways — some born with birth defects, some born normal who later have a terrible accident, some born normal who never know abnormal. I can see how it could be either way.

    Of the homosexuals I have known it seems it has been a choice or a result of traumatic childhood abuse (usu sexual in nature).

    But I won’t doubt it could be from birth. We never know how God will use someone. We just don’t.

    Good and BRAVE post!!

    Heidi Reed

    candidchatter

    October 7, 2008 at 7:34 am

  4. either way, isnt it still a choice?

    tam

    October 7, 2008 at 11:11 am

  5. For me, the question is “does it really matter”?

    Whether it’s genetic or a choice doesn’t make a difference on how it is lived out.

    Many of us have alcoholism in our genetics. Many will accept the theory that alcoholism is simply in “my genes”. But, we have a decision on whether or not to act out on our genetics.

    I think the bigger question is “how should we treat homosexuals.”

    And, also, what does Jesus say about homosexuality? While Scripture may state certain things about homosexuality, what does Jesus (God in the flesh) literally say about homosexuality?

    Jason

    October 7, 2008 at 2:03 pm

  6. Both.
    What I don’t understand is bisexuals. ?? I mean really? Are you sure you’re not just being selfish????

    agenesislife

    October 7, 2008 at 3:55 pm

  7. @tam I love your response. That is something I’ve been thinking about a lot. I’m not sure if I’ve settled with believing that as truth, but I’ve been wrestling with it a lot.

    @jason Thanks for the comment. I could not agree more with you that the bigger question is “how should we treat homosexuals”.

    I personally, am on the fence on what I believe to be truth. The one thing I know to be true however, is that they deserve our love. That just because they were born or have chosen the lifestyle of homosexuality does not take away from the words of God telling us to love everyone. I’ve seen this so much in the church it makes me myself not want to go to church. Is church not the place everyone? Are we all not sinners(and please don’t bring up the “living in sin” debate).

    If you’re hetro, homo, bi, metro, or whatever, it SHOULD NOT matter to the church. The church’s job, it’s calling, is not to change people. It’s to love people. When the church in itself goes back to that principle, it will be then that we will see God change the lives of those we share coffee with, those we say hello to, those who we come in contact with every day.

    I’m interested in seeing what everyone else has to say…continue, please.

    vagabondrunn

    October 7, 2008 at 4:46 pm

  8. Vagabondrunn – I agree that the church needs to do a far better job loving people and not scaring them so far out the door that they believe they are beyond redemption.

    The Bible is pretty clear, though, on the “living in sin” debate – which I know you said not to bring up but you can’t discuss “truth” without it.

    I don’t see anywhere that the Word says to throw out the homosexuals, the thieves, the liars, the prostitutes, etc. If we busied ourselves throwing out the ones we believe don’t belong then we had better be prepared to cast ourselves out with them.

    The place where the Word is clear, though , is in expelling the ones who continue to live by choice in their sin and without a repentant heart. It has to be so. As the word says, a little yeast works through the whole batch.

    One person being allowed to continue living unrepentant in his sin will be a stumbling block to the rest. The one living in sin isn’t doing anything to build the rest of the body up…he is tearing it down. Likewise, if the rest of the body cannot minister to him in love – even if the love is tough and means expulsion until he becomes repentant – the body is tearing him down, not building him up.

    But you said not to bring all that stuff up, so I won’t .

    Great discussion. I wish my gay friends would slide by your blog and throw in their two cents. It would be good for the church in-general to look past the labels long enough to hear the heart. If we would all do that, then we just might realize the true meaning of “love covers over a multitude of sins” and we just might even – dare I say it? – see lives redeemed and restored.

    Great topic thread. Thanks.

    nobodyspecial

    October 7, 2008 at 7:04 pm

  9. @nobodyspecial Thanks for the comments. The reason I guess I don’t want(or didn’t want) it brought up was because I believe we all live in sin. We live in sin that some of us, or even most, don’t even realize it’s sin. I mean, I’m sure there are things that I do, and do knowingly, but not knowing it’s sin. Sure, people who are living these lifestyles I’m sure have been told it’s sin, but also, they beleive fully that it’s not. I don’t know, just brain storming a little outloud.

    My belief is yes, I do believe it’s against God’s will for our lives. I don’t believe he creates the homosexual heart. I just don’t.

    However, with that said, that does not change my views on them as people. They deserve to have rights, they deserve to be treated equally, and mostly they deserved to have the chance to know love as equally as the rest.

    Also, I would love for your gay friends to come over and share. I think it would be great for everyone to hear the heart from both sides.

    (p.s. thanks for continuing to be respectful as we discuss)

    Kyle

    October 7, 2008 at 7:16 pm

  10. Yea, I don’t think the church should have to right to judge, turn away, or critisize gay people. Kyle is right, the church’s job is to love people.
    There was an argument yesterday between one of my Catholic friends and one of my liberal friends about gay people. Let me tell you, it got reeeeally interesting. Opposite sides of the issue clashing all day long. Not fun.

    And really, I don’t understand bisexual people. Nothing agaist them. I just do not understand how people can be bisexual. I mean lets say people are born attracted to the same sex, does that mean people can also be born attracted to both sexes?? I really don’t know. If it is a choice, I don’t understand that either. Because I do not understand how a person can be attracted to a man and a woman at the same time. I suppose it’s possible. But I don’t get how you can like both.
    I’m really not trying to be mean. I just do not understand.

    agenesislife

    October 7, 2008 at 7:59 pm

  11. I believe some choose and some have no choice in the matter. I do life with many gay friends and family members and I love them. I see it biblically as sin, but most of the people I know who are gay and actively living it out, do not acknowledge it as sin, whatsoever. Love is love, they say. I do believe that even those who are born with same sex, sexual tendancies, are a result of this fallen world, and that it is an obstacle to overcome and can be overcome, either by healing, or by refusal to submit to the impulses.

    We are all sinners and i have my own long laundry list.

    I belive homosexuality might be harder to combat than any drug addiction. Drug addicts can detox in rehab or in jail, and by the grace of God. I believe homosexuals can only be healed by the grace of God….but without admitting it is sin, there is no seeking or receiving such grace. I believe the church should be much more loving to gay people and we shouldn’t just try to fix everybody. It’s a journey of discovery and truth. We scare most of them away from even caring to know the truth. It is sad.

    Fundamentally we all feel like love should just be okay…..if it isn’t hurting anybody…and I wish this were true….but God proclaimed it and I believe we should obey it.

    melissa1970

    October 7, 2008 at 11:59 pm

  12. All of these responses come from a Christian perspective. That is fine. Who you are and what you believe shapes your opinions on all matters of life. But the question was “is homosexuality a choice or is it obtained at birth?” not “is homosexuality mentioned in the bible/a sin/something that should affect a person’s involvement in chuch?”
    When you really consider what the endgame is, it’s about a relationship, the quest for a perfect partner, someone a person can relate to and spend the rest of their life with. That is a big commitment.
    Who a person is attracted to isn’t a simple matter to deal with. Who is to say what is right to love and not to love? When it comes to matters of the heart, how can anyone determine whether the type of person someone loves is determined at birth or a choice?

    headintheclouds

    October 8, 2008 at 4:52 pm

  13. @headintheclouds Thanks for the comment, really. I love that what makes us difference, can bring us together.

    I will say that I am on similar terms with your view somewhat here. I by all means believe that these attractions to the same sex are real. They are not discounted feelings, or fake. I am also sure that they are no more meant to have happened as the feelings that develope between two hetrosexuals. You cannot control who your heart falls for.
    But can you and should you control who you date and pick as a lifeparter?
    With all of that said, I am not saying it is wrong to love anyone. Hear that if nothing else. Our ability and right to love was created in the beginning. It was magnified at the cross. The topic isn’t love that we’re talking about, it’s the homosexual lifestyle.
    I would say however, that I believe someone being a homosexual is either by choice or by birth. Is it restricted always to one of those? I wouldn’t say yes or to say no.

    Just my thoughts. Thanks again for sharing.

    Kyle

    October 8, 2008 at 5:28 pm

  14. […] link found through a link found through a link, I stumbled upon this blog to a post discussing the birth/choice argument of homesexuality.  (I even got up the guts to join the follow up discussion – go me!)  One comment stopped me in […]

  15. Both?
    After many years, I still can’t figure it out…
    I agree with tam…
    “either way, isn’t it a choice?”
    And I agree with Jason that the bigger question is “does it really matter?” and “how should we treat homosexuals?”
    God wants to be in relationship with all His children. It is He, is who changes all of us. Conforms us to His image.
    I think people often tend to feel there are BIG sins, when in reality ALL sin is offensive to God.
    For me, I am called to befriend the all the disenfranchised. With the hope that they will be led into a relationship with God.
    What does my heart good is to see so many people here willing to simply love…

    dorothy (vicar of vibe)

    October 12, 2008 at 9:15 am

  16. Sidenote: about expelling the ones who continue to live by choice in their sin…
    We can’t know the heart of the relationship between a person and God.
    I “labeled” myself a Christian for many years, without being in a true relationship with God.
    And it showed in my lifestyle.
    When I finally completely turned my life over to Him, He changed me.

    dorothy (vicar of vibe)

    October 12, 2008 at 9:16 am

  17. @ nobodyspecial October 7, 2008 at 6:39 am

    If you believe homosexuality is a sin then it absolutely can be inherited. Something about inheriting the sins of your fathers. But if you do not believe it is a sin then perhaps it is a choice. In such case though it wouldn’t really matter, would it?

    Both their own iniquities and the iniquities of their fathers together,” says the LORD. “Because they have burned incense on the mountains And scorned Me on the hills, Therefore I will measure their former work into their bosom.” Isaiah 65:7

    •Exodus 20:5 “For I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation.” (Repeated in Deuteronomy 5:9)

    Exodus 34:7 Visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children’s children unto the third and to the fourth generation.

    Deuteronomy 28:18 Cursed shall be the fruit of thy body

    Isaiah 14:21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers.

    p.s. there are more verses check them out.

    Another question this poses would be are the sins necessarily the same as the father or previous generations?

    Rachelle Stine

    October 13, 2008 at 8:56 pm

  18. I’ve never felt like my lifestyle was a choice. At no point did I wake up and decide that practically being disowned from one side of my family sounded like fun. At no point did I think that being asked to leave my former church, the church that I grew up in, sounded like a relaxing Sunday. At no point did a life of being ostracized from the mainstream sounded ideal.

    I don’t know for sure that it’s not a sin. I don’t know for sure that anything isn’t a sin. I feel that it’s not a sin though. It’s something I’ve done a lot of prayer about and I don’t feel like it’s wrong.

    At any rate, we all fall short–grossly short, in fact. In some ways, the way we bicker and criticize each other is probably pretty disgraceful to God. I think the fact that we stick our noses in others’ morality (in the absence of it hurting others) probably is too. “Love thy neighbor” is a pretty important passage in there, I think.

    I don’t think kicking your gay neighbor out of the neighborhood is going to do much good, anyway. 🙂 Ol’ JC hung out with the sinners–shouldn’t we?

    Jill

    October 13, 2008 at 9:26 pm

  19. i may be 12 and know little about god and who or what he accepts but i do know that god loves everyone equal and he says that throughout bible and i don’t know how to think of homosexuality as a bad life decision or why people would hate on them. i personally don’t care about homosexuality but then again i had been around it for a couple of years
    and if people would just get to know some of them. then they would see they are people not a issue. i live with a couple (not saying any names) who are gay but they live like the average American pay taxes, vote, and buy cheep things but still when i first found out they were gay i felt uneasy and scared but then when i started to hang around them they were the same people I’d known so all I’m asking is that you get to know a homosexual now I’m not asking you to like them but at least give them a chance

    Zran

    October 13, 2008 at 9:42 pm

  20. nature….nurture….both probably matter.

    A guy may be tall (nature) and his dad may have played basketball. But he’s still got to go practice and get good at the choice.

    I am no scientist, but it’s possible that people might be predisposed to be homosexual, and that their environment may contribute even further. But there is still a conscious choice that must be made.

    Michael

    October 15, 2008 at 3:46 pm

  21. @Michael, I would agree with that. It’s definitely still a decision, just as it is a decision for me to pursue and date the opposite sex.

    Thanks for joining the conversation.

    vagabondrunn

    October 15, 2008 at 6:40 pm

  22. […] I read this today, Shane affirmed everything that I had been feeling after writing THIS post, and reading the […]


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